MSTU4016-08/Discuss 4
From Studyplace
September 24
Interrogating the Past I: Oral Epic Identities
- Discussion Question
- How did Homer think deliberation about a course of action takes place? How can his understanding of deliberation inform your own?
- Discussion leader: Kyle
- Required Readings
- Homer, The Iliad, Richard Lattimore, trans. (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1961), Book 1, pp. 59-75. Read
- Supplemental Reading
- Hesiod, Theogony, pp. 53-82; Read
- Eric Havelock, Preface to Plato
Contents |
[edit] RESPONSE TO READINGS
[edit] The Iliad
When considering the Iliad as “poetry” it is important not to consider this work as the poetry that we experience today. For the most part, epics such as this were considered encyclopedias of Greek life, which tended to be passed down through oral “performances” and illustrated aspects of the human condition of the time. For example, religion is alluded to throughout the piece “Over and over the old man prayed as he walked in solitude to King Apollo…”
As the plague continued, more prayers are offered to the gods, “In the name of Apollo beloved of Zeus to whom you, Lakchas, make your prayers when you interpret the gods will to the Danaans…”
Homer acts as educator and demonstratea deliberation as an honorable value of Greek Life. Often a sacred scepter was held by the person chosen to speak, in Achilles speech to Agamemnon he states, “now by this sacred scepter hear me swear Now by this sacred scepter hear me swear.” Additionally, the language attempts to find balance between emotion and logic, as both Achilles and Agamemnon are beset by intense feelings of anger. This is followed by Kalchas who gives a “logical” response as to why this plague exists. Agamemnon follows with his own rebuttal to Kalchas. Achilles continues his emotional appeal to Agamemnon, “Son of Atreus, most lordly, greediest for gain of all me, how shall the great-hearted Archaians give you prize now?”
Deliberation and participation in the assembly was considered a noble and divine activity. Even an angry Achilles sitting in solitude would “never now would he go to the assemblies where men win glory.” His emotions ruled him at that moment and ultimately led him to inaction.
Again, we should note that the Iliad was most likely performed as some sort of dramatic piece. However, being the technology of the day “poetry was conceived and intended to be a kind of social encyclopedia.” Additionally, the language is indicative of dramatic interpretation. For example, the main characters are described through the use of adjectives such as Achilles of “swift feet” and “lord of men Agamemnon.” Repetition, colorful language and rhetorical devices, as evidenced by:
- They threw over the anchor stones and made fast the stern cables
- And themselves stepped out on to the break of the sea beach,
- And if forth the hecatomb to the archer Apollo,
- And Chryseis herself stepped forth from the sea-going vessel.
Some questions that arose for me:
- • It has been discussed in class the question of AUTHORSHIP? In a oral tradition, such as the, would it have possible for the performers to have contributed to this piece, which has been credited, for the most part, exclusively to Homer?
- • Consider the statement, “Clearly therefore the context of the argument has shifted from the artistic situation to the educational one” (Havelock 24). Have the same things been about the advent of television as well as with the popularity of hip-hop music?
- • According to Plato, poetic media, like the poetry in Homer’s time was a technology that “formed a kind refracting screen which disguises and distorts reality and at the same time distracts is and plays tricks with us by appealing to the shallowest of our sensibilities" (Havelock 26).
- • Does WIKIPEDIA serve a similar “social encyclopedia” in much the same way as the poetry of Homer?
[edit] PREFACE TO PLATO
Eric Havelock
Why Plato is right
• The oral tradition is not a factual narrative since “when the poet speaks a speech in the person of another, he makes his verbal medium (lexis) resemble the speaker…Any poet who makes himself resemble another voice or gesture is imitating him" (Havelock 21).
Why Plato is wrong
• The audience/listener is an active participant in the performance of these poems. There is nothing to indicate that they were passive spectators. Moreover, given the length of these memorized pieces, it is conceivable to believe that certain major themes were in the performance were truthful and enhanced by artistic liberty. As Havelock states, “It focuses initially not on the artist’s creative act but on his power to make his audience identify almost pathologically and certainly sympathetically with the content of what he is saying” (45).
[edit] THEOGONY
Hesiod
Hesiod's Theogony is another epic poem with "religious" undertones in that it details the history of various Greek gods through song. Again, oratory plays a crucial role in public debate, even the Muses sing in observance of "one of those appointed by Zeus to be kings and decide to honor him, they pour sweet dew upon his tongue, and the words flow like honey from his lips. All the people look up to him as he in judgment gives straight verdicts; with his sure eloquence he knows how to bring even large disputes to a quick end" (55).
DELIBERATION
AUTHORSHIP IN AN ORAL TRADITION
TRUTH
POETRY AS COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY
MUSIC AS COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY
- - Rhythm
- - Meter (Dactylic Hexameter)
- - Memorization
