4016 Fall07 Questions and Discussion 4
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[edit] Preface to Plato
[edit] Eric Havelock
Eric Havelock’s Preface to Plato clarifies Plato’s “attack” on Poetry. He initially breaks the problem into six parts:
1. Why is poetry “treated as though it held a monopoly on the present educational apparatus?” 2. Why can be poetry be considered a sort of cultural encyclopedia? 3. Why is Plato determined to expel poetry from higher education? 4. Why are Plato’s assumptions regarding mimesis so convoluted? 5. Why can Plato use mimesis to refer to drama and epic and not acknowledge a genre distinction? 6. Why is he “so frequently obsessed with the psychology of response as it is experienced by the audience?”
The majority of the fifth century was a time of “semi-literacy” and up to Plato’s day “the educational apparatus, as so often since, lagged behind technological advance, and preferred to adhere to traditional methods of oral instruction.” At this time poetry was most effective and still “held a monopoly” on education.
Plato attacked a poetry much different than the poetry we know of today. It was to be performed and whether “under the harpist,” as “an epic recital,” or “in the theater,” poetry was used in a common way; hence Plato acknowledges no genre distinction. In the pre-literate age it was used as an oral form of cultural indoctrination. The poets wrote poems down knowing the audience would not read them, but would listen to them. This poetry packed normative values and essential, albeit general, clan knowledge into large, hypnotizing performances. These performances illustrated nomos (laws) and ethos (personal behavior pattern) and became “vehicle[s] for illustrating the public law” as well as “personal code.”
By modern standards these stories are impossibly long to memorize. (We will do a brief activity in class to explore the methods that make the poems “memorizable”). Havelock propounds that the performance of these poems valued memorization at the loss of objectivity. For Plato “reliving experience in memory instead of analyzing and understanding it” was antithetical to education. This is perhaps why he wanted poetry expelled from education.
These performances were successful when, and only when, “the artist identified with his story and the audience identified with the artist.” This what Plato is referring to when he uses the word mimesis. Recitation, listening, repeating, recalling, and absorption are all part of this process of oral education. Sensuous pleasure lives in both teaching and learning when this process successful!
[edit] The Theogony
[edit] By Hesiod
Before I dissect the “depictions of the gods and [their] relationship to human agency, and discuss the preconditions of these differences,” I would like to provide some definitions, historical context, and a brief introduction to the Theogony.
Just to spice things up a bit, I have consulted Wikipedia as an external resource. I know how much Lanier would approve. The definitions provided will be the terms I use in my portion of the evaluation.
“Theogony is a poem by Hesiod describing the origins and genealogies of the gods of the ancient Greeks, composed circa 700 BC. The title of the work comes from the Greek words for ‘god’ and ‘seed’. It is a large-scale synthesis of a vast variety of local Greek traditions concerning the gods, organized as a narrative that tells how they came to be and how they established permanent control over the cosmos. In many cultures, narratives about the origin of the cosmos and about the gods that shaped it are a way for society to reaffirm its native cultural traditions. Specifically, theogonies tend to affirm kingship as the natural embodiment of society. Although it is often used as a sourcebook for Greek mythology, the Theogony is a snapshot of a dynamic tradition that happened to crystallize when Hesiod formulated the myths he knew, and these traditions have continued evolving.”
“Hesiod was an early Greek poet and rhapsode, who presumably lived around 700 BC. Hesiod and Homer, with whom Hesiod is often paired, have been considered the earliest Greek poets. His writings serve as a major source for knowledge of Greek mythology, farming techniques, archaic Greek astronomy and ancient time-keeping.”
“Rhapsode is related to rhapsoidein, meaning "to sew songs together". This word illustrates how the oral epic poet, or rhapsode, would build a repertoire of diverse myths, tales and jokes to include in the content of the epic poem. Thus it was possible, through experience and improvisatory skills, for him to shift the content of the Epos according to the preferred taste of a specific location's audience. However, the outer framework of the epic would remain virtually the same in every "singing", thus securing the projection of underlying themes such as of morality or honour.”
[edit] Compare the depictions of the gods and their relationship to human agency. What are the preconditions of the differences?
There are three points from external readings that I would like to use to address the gods' relationships to human agency:
Hesiod's Theogony is our best and earliest evidence for what the ancient Greeks believed about the beginning of the world and its divine governance. It is a relatively short and straightforward account of family relationships and conflicts among the gods, culminating in the reign of Zeus, and his establishment of a permanent divine order. But, underlying the genealogical lists and categorical descriptions of battles, monsters, and nymphs, the Theogony is also a complex and powerful statement of the connection between family status and the drive for power (Caldwell, Richard. Hesiod's Theogony. 1987: Focus Publishing).
As Havelock claims, in Hesiod's writing, the "deity is celebrated by describing its birth, prerogatives, powers and functions in human society" (p. 61). He "celebrates them in their general aspect as embodying the universal power of poetry, and in this context he proceeds to define the content of what they sing as 'the custom-laws of all and folk-ways of the immortals'" (p.62). In Hesiod's rhapsodic interpretation, there is no distinction between the words of man and the ways of the gods.
This "emobdiment of universal poetry" is further exemplified by Hesiod's ommission of a historical royal line. Zeus rules the cosmos, but Hesiod gives himself the authority usually reserved for kings by declaring that it is he, “upon whom the Muses have bestowed the two gifts of a scepter” and he, upon whom the gods have “breathed their divine voice, so that [he] might tell of things to come and things past” (Hesiod, Theogony 28-30). This indicates that the ultimate authority now belongs to the poetic voice, not to the kings. The gods are synonymous with the order of the universe. Yet throughout the Theogony, the gods behave in a disorderly fashion which is indicative of the human condition, as if there is a consolidation of power, and a struggle between supremacy and humanity (Wikipedia, 2007).
Below is a link to the Family Tree of Hesiod’s Theogony, which should clarify some of the confusion about the order of the cosmos.
http://www.theoi.com/TreeHesiod.html
[edit] Homer - The Iliad
Ego The Iliad begins with the poet calling on the muse to sing of the wrath of Achilleus and its devastations, during the siege of Troy. Several underlying themes can be sensed throughout the epic, one of the most important being self-ego-worship. From some of the descriptions in the text (as in many other historical texts), it can be so analyzed that majority of the wars would not have taken place but for the ‘ego’. This is rather illustrated by the idea that the conflict that became the Iliad began for the claim of the title ‘To the Fairest’ by three goddesses, Athena, the Goddess of wisdom; Hera, the Queen of the Gods; and Aphrodite, the Goddess of love. The desire of the characters to gain personal honor and status through their achievements on the battlefield often overrides the over all well-being of their land, or the more public-oriented aims. For example, at the climactic point, Hektor ultimately decides to fight Achilleus and thereby gain glory rather than retreat behind the walls of Troy so that he can continue to lead the Trojan troops in defense of the city. Apart from the many other instances of rage and ego clashes between Agamemnon and Achilleus, a strong influence of ego can also be seen in Achilleus’ decision to return to the war despite the following prophecy, where he chooses everlasting glory over a long life. “I carry two sorts of destiny towards the day of my death. either, if I stay here and fight beside the city of the Trojans, my return home is gone, but my glory shall be everlasting; but if I return home to the beloved land of my fathers, the excellence of my glory is gone, but there will be a long life left for me, and my end in death will not come to me quickly.” (Book Nine, lines 411-416)
Divinity The importance of the Gods at the time is established quite early on, with Homer asking the question “What God was it then set them together in bitter collision?” (Book One, line 8) The Gods in the Iliad have vices and passions, and in their human-like failings differ strongly from the perfect deities that contemporary society knows as ‘Gods’ today. Whether it is Chryses appeal to Apollo that causes him to attack the Greek army with plague (Book One) or Athene’s deception in the form of Deiphobus that brings about Hektor’s death, the picture of the Gods, is one of beings unconcerned with negative consequences for people on earth and egoist - an insult to them is more important than the lives of any number of their worshippers. In contrast, an appeal for favors made to them, may take them to any lengths, to prove their power. For example, at Thetis' request, Zeus pledges that the Greeks will suffer defeat until Achilleus’ honor is increased among them. (Book One) Many actions in the Iliad are attributed to divine intervention, to the extent that it eliminates chance entirely, and the will of the Gods is visible throughout the epic. Thus, the portrayal of the Gods with near-human emotions, but super human powers, may be the depiction of the considered image of ‘God’ during Homer’s times. A more contemporary picture then emerges - the Gods are extremely powerful, more than any man, and their influence is everywhere.
Some contemporary parallels Much of our interpretation of past events is influenced by our own expectations of the way we believe life should have been experienced by others. This is based upon our understanding of our own experiences, and such an understanding is not fully possible unless a ready comparison is available. A large part of the epic is devoted to the conflict among both Gods and men, and the struggle experienced by both. An interesting aspect is the glorification of war, where Homer believes that men can only discover their true worth when engaged in battle. The war field may have changed, but today’s world, believes no less, whether is a financial battle, a battle of the minds, or actual warfare, men still believe that they can discover their true worth when engaged in battle. And they continue to battle, albeit for power, fame and money. The depiction of women in the Iliad takes the reader through two diametrically opposite views: The power that the Goddesses exude (Hera, Athene) as against the helplessness of those women, who are merely taken as prizes for battles won and exchanged for ransom (Chrysies, Brieses). The understanding of the current world brings out the diversity in the way women are viewed even today, some, almost Goddess like - powerful and commanding, and others who give in to life as it comes, living on another's terms and awaiting the next instruction to live, day in and day out.
[edit] Activity
We will try to create our own mini-epic. Greek poems were cultural encyclopedias, compiling and teaching clan law. Our poem will be about our little clan: our class. To make things simple, there will only be three characters: Professor Moretti, Ruthie, and the class. We will go around the circle, each adding one line apiece to build the “epic.” To help build the story we can try to use one or some of the following devices (no pressure though):
Meter
Rhythm
Repetition
Acoustic “Jingle”
Music
Movement
Here is my suggestion for an opening line: The class was quiet/ So deathly silent, it began.
This is just to give everyone a heads up! It will all be explained in full at class. Hopefully this will be "sensuous" fun and provide a catalyst for group discussion.
